Browse › Mathematical logic › 243 Separating choiceless counting from polynomial time and witnessed choice
Witnessed symmetric choice is strictly stronger than choiceless polynomial time with counting
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Abstract
We prove that witnessed symmetric choice strictly increases the expressive power of choiceless polynomial time with counting. A fixed sentence with one witnessed-choice occurrence defines a Boolean query on every finite input that is not definable in the original counting formalism.
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Notes
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work in progress
Collected automatically by AI tools (Claude Opus 5.5 and GPT-6 Astra, 2026-10-21) and not checked by a person. May be wrong or incomplete. Report an error.
Formalization
- OpenAI, Lean scope notes for family 243 (release documentation, October 2026). The first scope paragraph says the witnessed-symmetric-choice result is not included, while a second paragraph and a comparator link (WitnessedChoice.lean) in the same notes describe a formalization of this result. [family-level]
- OpenAI, ComparatorChallenges/WitnessedChoice.lean (openai/math, commit adc7f12). States
WitnessedChoice.main : BGS.MainStatement, proof left assorryin this file: there is a sentence with exactly onewscoperator that is Boolean on all finite inputs, and nowsc-free sentence has the same models. - OpenAI, OAI/Computability/WitnessedChoice/Main.lean (openai/math, commit adc7f12). Proves
main : BGS.MainStatementby instantiating the separating sentence and evaluating it on a zero-charge grid input (true) and a unit-charge input (false).
Related prior literature mentioned by others
- Andreas Blass, Yuri Gurevich and Saharon Shelah, Choiceless polynomial time (arXiv:math/9705225v1, 15 May 1997). The AI Proved What? exposition identifies this work as the source of the choiceless model and the counting noncapture conjecture motivating the family. [family-level]
- Anuj Dawar, David Richerby and Benjamin Rossman, Choiceless Polynomial Time, Counting and the Cai–Fürer–Immerman Graphs (author preprint, 13 August 2007; Annals of Pure and Applied Logic, 2008). The AI Proved What? exposition contrasts this work's rank-restricted counting lower bounds with the family's claimed separation allowing unrestricted finite set rank. [family-level]
- Moritz Lichter and Pascal Schweitzer, Choiceless Polynomial Time with Witnessed Symmetric Choice (arXiv:2205.14003v3, 10 February 2023). The AI Proved What? exposition attributes to these authors the witnessed-choice operator whose strict expressive gain over CPT with counting is claimed in this paper.
Digests and expositions
- AI Proved What?, Is there a logic for polynomial time? (episode 243, October 2026). This AI-assisted video and transcript outline both separating queries, the charged-grid construction and the rank-independent support argument, and report small-grid computations performed for the exposition. [AI-generated per source] [family-level]
Elsewhere
- VibeMathed: Problem record
- Emergent Mind: family 243
Independent sites; their content is not reviewed here.
Cite
@misc{OAI:Witnessed-symmetric-choice-is-strictly-stronger-than-choiceless-polynomial-time-with-counting-September-24-2026,
author = {{OpenAI}},
title = {{Witnessed symmetric choice is strictly stronger than choiceless polynomial time with counting}},
howpublished = {OpenAI Math Release preprint
\href{https://github.com/openai/math/blob/main/preprints/Witnessed-symmetric-choice-is-strictly-stronger-than-choiceless-polynomial-time-with-counting-September-24-2026/paper.pdf}{OAI:Witnessed-symmetric-choice-is-strictly-stronger-than-choiceless-polynomial-time-with-counting-September-24-2026}},
year = {2026}
}Lean formalization
OpenAI provides Lean files for this family: lean/docs/243.md. The Lean statements have not been checked by people against the paper's claims.
Family 243: Separating choiceless counting from polynomial time and witnessed choice
Confirms the Blass–Gurevich–Shelah noncapture conjecture: consistency of a linear system over 𝔽3 defines a polynomial-time query on unordered finite structures that choiceless polynomial time with counting cannot express. A separate result shows that adding witnessed symmetric choice strictly increases expressive power. Both separations hold for the full counting formalism, allowing hereditarily finite sets of arbitrary finite rank.
Other papers in this family:
- Choiceless polynomial time with counting does not capture polynomial time · September 23, 2026